Hillary Clinton Facing Undiscussed Sexism

There's been alot of debate about comments aimed at Hillary sprinkling the political blogs, and whether some of them are routed in sexism.  In truth, I think some are, some arn't. It's true, the Clinton's have always been somewhat polarizing.  I think one reason for that, is the right wing's contempt for one of few extremely successful Democrat's in the last several decades.  But, with Hillary, there is more to it than that.  Remember, Pat Buchanon once called her a "radical feminist". Still, as we've seen here in some instances, the sexism is not necessarily only coming from Right or Left, it's just coming.

So, some criticism is valid, some is sexist in nature, and it's extremly disappointing that the press isn't talking about it at all. I was stunned when a McCain supporter called Hillary Clinton a "bitch", and McCain actually used it as a fundraising tool.  The media shrugged it off.  Then, last week, Chris Rock, upon introducing Obama, jokingly warned african american's not to support "that white lady", which oddly has only been reported as a story about race, not gender.  There's a gender issue here, in both cases, that is not being addressed.  

But beyond the inappropriate comments and jokes, widely ignored by the media, there is a more sinister, extremly overt campaign of sexism being waged against Hillary Clinton.  It's out there it the unrestrained world of the internet for anyone to see.  Jonathon Tilove of Newhouse News tells the story:

In the coming months, America will decide whether to elect its first female president. And amid a techno-media landscape where the wall between private vitriol and public debate has been reduced to rubble, Sen. Hillary Clinton is facing an onslaught of open misogynistic expression.

Step lightly through that thickly settled province of the Web you could call anti-Hillaryland and you are soon knee-deep in "bitch," "slut," "skank," "whore" and, ultimately, what may be the most toxic four-letter word in the English language.

We have never been here before.

No woman has run quite the same gantlet. And of course, no man.

Kathleen Hall Jamieson, director of the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania, set out to research racist attacks she thought may be out there against Senator Obama, but what she found was that sexist attacks against Hillary Clinton were much more pervasive.  

Like me, Jamieson was surprised there was no real public discussion of the McCain "bitch" event, and no soul searching as to what it might mean.  Fellow academic, Debbie Walsh, weighs in on the McCain event:

"Can you imagine if that woman had said, 'How do we beat the "n-word"?'" asked Debbie Walsh, director of the Center for American Women and Politics at Rutgers University's Eagleton Institute of Politics. For McCain, said Walsh, or at least for those who think the nation might have benefited by examining why that woman felt so free to say what she did so publicly, "It was a terrible missed opportunity."

Some academics looking at this phenomenom believe it would not be happening to a Republican woman, partly because Hillary can be viewed as a feminist icon(recall Pat Buchanan).  Sociologist C.J. Pascoe, a researcher with the Digital Youth Project at Berkeley's Institute for the Study of Social Change claims, "This would not be happening if it were Elizabeth Dole," Pascoe said.  But, she said, "Hillary Clinton offers young men on social networking sites a ripe target for their aggression."

Here are just a few examples of what is out there:

One is "Hillary Clinton: Stop Running for President and Make Me a Sandwich," with more than 23,000 members and 2,200 "wall posts" -- Internet graffiti in which discussants have fantasized about Clinton being raped by a donkey.

Another Facebook group, more temperate in tone and with about 13,000 members, is "Life's a bitch, why vote for one? Anti-Hillary '08." Like several other anti-Clinton sites, this one promotes a T-shirt: "Hillary for President. She Puts the C--- in Country."

The proprietors of the Facebook group "Hillary Clinton Shouldn't Run for President, She Should Just Run the Dishes," with 2,159 members, offer a pre-emptive disclaimer to offended visitors:

"Do not message just to say how sexist we are and how the Lord will strike us down for hating women. That is just ignorant. It's been really hard to respond to all of the e-mails without saying the C-word, don't make us start now."

So what about the guys(mostly young men) behind these sites?  They think this is just humor.  

People need to see the humor in politics, he said. He loves Comedy Central's "The Daily Show" with Jon Stewart and "The Colbert Report," and is among the more than 1.4 million members of the Facebook group "1,000,000 strong for Stephen T. Colbert," even though he knows Stewart and Colbert are mocking his conservative politics.

Moreover, Jussaume said, "I'm not against women in politics. I hope in my lifetime I can live to see a female president."

Then there is the more mainstream sexism, from conservative pundits to comedy central.

On his radio show, which reaches 14.5 million people, Rush Limbaugh talks about Clinton's "testicle lock box." On his MSNBC show, Tucker Carlson says, "There's just something about her that feels castrating, overbearing and scary," and a guest, Cliff May, president of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies and a former spokesman for the Republican National Committee, says that if Clinton is going to appeal to women for support on the basis of her gender, "at least call her a vaginal-American."

Comedy Central is a source of both entertainment and political news for its audience, which is heavily young and male. Among its most popular offerings is the outrageous animated show "South Park," which in March had an episode in which terrorists (Russian mercenaries hired by Queen Elizabeth II, bent on the reconquest of America) place a bomb in Hillary Clinton's vagina. (The episode provoked much less outrage than another mocking Tom Cruise and his religion, Scientology.)

While some of the examples I provide are overt, there is much that is less clear.  

Jane Hamsher of Firedoglake, who expressed reluctance to defend Clinton because she doesn't want to be mistaken for a supporter, said:

"There's a deep string of sexism that informs a lot of the criticism ... and sometimes it's hard to disentangle."... But she expects there may be some women, otherwise cool to Clinton, who will rally around the senator as the misogyny burns brighter.  Jamieson concurred. "This has the potential to push a lot of moderate Republican women toward her," she said.

So this is out there, and it not really being discussed.  I'm not sure if that's helpful or harmful to Hillary Clinton. I just know it disgusts me.  



Display:


Did you read the diary? (none / 0)

Accordin to researchers, there is much more sexism online leveled at Hillary than racism at Obama, which the researcher did not expect to find.  Also, alot of it is mainstream, and none of it is discussed by the media.


by bookgrl on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 06:42:09 PM EST

Re: Did you read the diary? (none / 0)

Given the lack of peer review, I question part of the research.  What I will say is the Online racism against Obama is a lot more subtle... most aren't using the N word or other racist sayings whereas the sexist comments against Hillary are MUCH more overt... they will use the word bitch, etc about her.  Since the research appears to fail to take that into account and only measures the overt sexism vs racism, I question the validity.  Suffice it to say, there is racism and sexism against BOTH on the Internet.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 10:20:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Facing Undiscussed Sexism (none / 0)

I'm sorry, but the words used against Clinton aren't any worse than "Breck Girl," "pretty boy," "asshole," or many other nasty terms used against candidates of every type.

And yes, it's discussed every time a new poll shows Hillary dropping--Iowans are sexist, voters in New Hampshire are sexist, bloggers are sexist, the woman who called Clinton a bitch is sexist, John McCain is sexist, anyone who questions Clinton on a policy issue is sexist.  That according to the Clinton front-pagers at this very blog.


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 06:45:40 PM EST

Ok, so you don't want to actually (none / 0)

deal with what I wrote.  I'm just exposing something out there.  I actually think this is harmful, but it's out there.  Both the overt and the subvert.


by bookgrl on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 06:55:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok, so you don't want to actually (2.00 / 2)

you hang in there.  These men do not want to deal with reality.  But my generation stopped letting men write the story in the 60s and 70s.  You younger women need to do the same thing.  The fact that VP and others like him don't get it doesn't change anything.  They don't get to decide what is real.
We know what sexism is and how it operates to "keep women in their place" by demeaning them, making them the butt of jokes that say they do not have to be taken seriously.  The anecdote to that is not to ask men to understand the issue, asked once, explained once and any man or woman with a brain and worth your time will understand.  Those who want to keep arguing are not worth it.
Just keep doing what you know is right and bringing up the truth.  

ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 08:54:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Facing Undiscussed Sexism (none / 0)

You can't deny the fact that Iowa has never elected a woman to a statewide office in history. Are women somehow less capable in Iowa than they are in the rest of this country? or is there something else at play?


by PhillyGuy on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:18:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Facing Undiscussed Sexism (none / 0)

Lt. Gov. Doesn't count?  


by JeremiahTheMessiah on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:20:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Last three LGs (none / 0)


by danIA on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 12:01:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

also attorney general in 1990 (none / 0)

and secretary of agriculture in 1998 and 2002.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 01:03:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Facing Undiscussed Sexism (none / 0)

And what black person has been elected statewide in Iowa?

If this lack of precedent is so harmful to Clinton, why not Obama.

Because it's just a distraction---a way to spin a Clinton loss in Iowa.


"Well Hillary, I looking forward to you advising me as well." - Barack Obama
by General Sherman on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:22:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Facing Undiscussed Sexism (none / 0)

You know, this isn't about Iowa, or the other candidates.  You'll find that if you read the diary.  Let's stay on topic.


by bookgrl on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:23:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Facing Undiscussed Sexism (none / 0)

Let's not make this about Iowa.  This is broader than that.


by bookgrl on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:24:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Facing Undiscussed Sexism (none / 0)

hey Phillyguy, thanks for the voice of reason.


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 08:55:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I think they're worse. (2.00 / 1)

I'm an Edwards supporter, and being called a bitch, cunt, whore, slut, and others, not to mention the fact these assholes seem to congregate for the sole purpose of demeaning this particular woman in explicitly sexist terms, is worse than what Edwards has had to deal with.

"Breck Girl," "pretty boy," and "faggot" are bad, I grant, and they're obviously the product of sexism and homophobia, but the volume that has been directed at him isn't quite the same as what has been shoveled on Hillary.


Support Regina Thomas, GA-12
by Drew on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 11:36:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, but actually, that too is wrong. (none / 0)

The media has tried to feminize John, and it is dispicable.  They often can do that to Dem's because we are a majority women's Party, so you know, Dem men talk about women's issues alot.


by bookgrl on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 11:46:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think they're worse. (2.00 / 2)

in a way it is all hate of women isn't it?  The funny thing is that gay men I have been friends with have been, to me, some of the most masculine men I know because they do what men are supposed to do, or men used to do, they take care of those people they care about.  They provide family, stability in their relationships when they settle down together and become a haven for those they gather to them.  What is more "manly" than that?  Yet what do men and stupid women do when they want to insult a man, gay or otherwise?  They compare him to a woman as if that were a bad thing.


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 09:02:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

boo hoo vox (2.00 / 1)

please tell me your sad story about how reverse sexism has kept men down in this society.


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 08:48:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Facing Undiscussed Sexism (none / 0)

Clinton, as most American women, have been and are victims of sexism.


"Well Hillary, I looking forward to you advising me as well." - Barack Obama
by General Sherman on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 06:47:45 PM EST

Ofcourse they will. This isn't (2.00 / 1)

just about Hillary, and it is most definately not about her opponents.  It's about sexism.  I can pretty much garuantee you that HRC is the only presidential candidate to ever of have had thousand of illustrations posted online of themselves being raped by an animal.  I'm commenting on something real in this race, which I don't actually find at all helpful to her campaign.


by bookgrl on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 07:03:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, I'm not saying that. (none / 0)


by bookgrl on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 07:04:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Facing Undiscussed Sexism (2.00 / 2)

You are correct book. Although HRC is not the first to run for the office, she is the front runner of our Party which makes her a media target and magnet. Women have long struggled in the area of Politics. "The good ol' boys club" as HRC called it. Being labeled as soft, prissy, too feminine, and weak. God forbid Hillary is aggressive, confident and wants to win. Something that's ONLY associated with men.

McCain reaction to the "bitch" incident was surprising and I too was disgusted and appalled. Remember Maureen Dowd's article in January, "Mama Hugs Iowa", which discussed HRC's 'unflattering' outfits. Sexism is definitely something we should not ignore. The media has failed us.


by lonnette33 on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 06:49:33 PM EST

Thanks for your thoughtful comments (none / 0)

lonnette.


by bookgrl on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 07:03:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I refuse to read MoDo (none / 0)

Her column is an embarrassing waste of valuable space.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 08:59:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I really don't see what people (none / 0)

see in her.


by bookgrl on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:02:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I will never forget when EE (2.00 / 1)

said "poor Hillary, she had to act like a man to get where she is".  I knew right then I would NEVER under any circumstances vote for him in he primary.  It was a calculated move to play right in to the republican attacks on Clinton that she is too aggressive, cold etc...Just more dog whistle politics unfortunately bought into and approved of by way too many men and stupid women on the "left".
That is not the only sexist remark that EE made against Clinton and as a consequence I have come to despise the woman.

ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 09:11:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I will never forget when EE (2.00 / 1)

Exactly. Rove offered a memo to Barry on how to beat HRC in the Financial Times today. Absolutely hilarious.


by lonnette33 on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 09:58:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Facing Undiscussed Sexism (none / 0)

She's running against a BLACK man, and you are going to claim Clinton is the one being steriotyped?

As a poster in another post aptly state, "January 3rd can't come soon enough."


by mattmfm on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 06:55:58 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton Facing Undiscussed Sexism (none / 0)

Did you read what she wrote? Based on your comment, I don't think you did.


by lonnette33 on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 06:57:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Read the diary. (none / 0)

This really isn't about Obama or anyone else in the race.


by bookgrl on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 06:57:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Read the diary. (none / 0)

We GET it...you two are able to even post a diary about anything other than HRC. Shocker!


by mattmfm on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 08:18:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Read the diary. (none / 0)

*unable


by mattmfm on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 08:19:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Facing Undiscussed Sexism (none / 0)

perhaps you should write a diary about all the racism that Obama has had to face.  Find us the face-book groups where they are making equally disgusting attacks, the video of someone saying "how do we beat that Ni**er" and lets talk.
In the meantime this diary makes a good point.  Do you have anything intelligent or relevant to add or not?

ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 09:14:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Facing Undiscussed Sexism (2.00 / 1)

Hillary is both the most-privileged yet most hamstrung candidate in the race.

Sexism is a cancer in it's own right, not just because is might harm HRC's election chances. Of course, gender is a major advantage for Hillary in terms of the election. First, there is her lead among women. Second, each sexist attack on her rankles many women, even those that otherwise dislike Hillary. Her campaign can easily exploit this legitimate sentiments.

Of course, at the same time you complain about this, we have or bring up racial fear tactics being employed by Clinton supporters.

-------

The following article was posted on Drudge on Saturday night;  
http://www.al.com/newsflash/regional/ind ex.ssf?base/politics-0/1196545145238660 .xml&storylist=alabamanews

Also, see the links below for similar examples of such statements by prominent Clinton backers.

http://www.independentconservative.com/2 007/02/16/clinton_d_jackson_deal

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory ?id=2873523

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/apps /pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007711120319

I really think that the Clinton campaign is seeking to capitalize on black fear. This strategy of the Clinton's help to put Michelle Obama's earlier contents in the proper perspective.


"Well Hillary, I looking forward to you advising me as well." - Barack Obama
by General Sherman on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 07:03:42 PM EST

It is there (2.00 / 2)

It is unfortunate, and when anyone tries to talk about it, they are jumped on for playing the "gender card". One of the reasons I have lost a lot of respect for both the Obama and Edwards campaigns.


by nascardem on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 07:18:29 PM EST

in the end... (none / 0)

i think it's impossible to untangle all the reasons that people won't vote for hillary.  they are undoubtedly intertwined.  doesn't really matter, though.  we all know that she's had historical highs in her negatives, it's not important to describe them all...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 07:45:28 PM EST

OT. (none / 0)


by bookgrl on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 08:11:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Facing Undiscussed Sexism (none / 0)

Women in Iowa do not even ssupport Hillary , so  i really dont know whats te big deal.

Women thinks Hillary is way too hawkish for a woman.


by Prodigy on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 08:03:03 PM EST

OT. (none / 0)


by bookgrl on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 08:12:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

too hawish for a woman? (none / 0)

welcome to the conversation Mr exhibit #1.


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 09:17:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Facing Undiscussed Sexism (2.00 / 1)

The sexism comes from Barack Obama arguing that her 8 years as first lady don't constitute experience. As if she spent those 8 years baking cookies and hosting teas.

Hillary is an incredibly smart, ambitious woman who had the opportunity to witness and participate first hand in the Administration of a Presidency. That she isn't given credit for being capable of taking that opportunity to learn how a White House is run, how crisis are handled and how politics is conducted at the national level is sexism of an extreme, if unmentioned, degree, and another reason why Barack Obama if unfit for the Presidency.


"What do Barack Obama and David Koresh have in common? Too god damn much."
by ThinkingDem on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 08:50:52 PM EST

I understand your displeasure with (none / 0)

his comments about FL, but let's keep this to Hillary and the sexism out there by non-candidates, underreported. Can you believe some of these hateful websites that have formed that I report in the diary?  It's just amazing.  And both the McCain incident and Chris Rocks joke at the fundraiser were basically ignored or laughed off by the press. I find that unacceptable.  


by bookgrl on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 08:59:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Rock comments not sexist (none / 0)

The fact that Rock used the work "lady" does not make his comments sexist. You could argue that his comments were racially divisive, and therefore out of line on that basis, but to call them sexist is simply off the mark.


"Well Hillary, I looking forward to you advising me as well." - Barack Obama
by General Sherman on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:08:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rock comments not sexist (none / 0)

I really disagree.  I think it was sexist.  


by bookgrl on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:25:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Explain? (none / 0)

Why? Please Explain.

If he had said "white man" would it have been sexist?

Or, is it because of the overall legacy of female oppression, such that every gender-specific reference becomes sexist.

Was it inherently sexist?

Would Chris Rock have not said this about a man?

Really, please explain.


"Well Hillary, I looking forward to you advising me as well." - Barack Obama
by General Sherman on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:33:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Explain? (none / 0)

She doesn't have  a reason why. Nearly everything she writes comes from this position that if someone says somethin against clinton it's sexist. she is using status here and that' s unfortunate. i also have to agree that if clinton were up this wouldn't be a debate at all. as i told hwc when he tried to pull this crap, i find it especially galling as a black man to see the black man in the race, Obama, be accused of sexism against a white woman, but we are suppose to pretend that lilly white IA wouldn't have a bigger problem, if identity was what this about, with Obama's race. That there is as history of protecting the white woman from the black man is to be ignored.

But playing the status game selectvely is what this is all about. Its to block real criticism. For example, if i were to say that clinton's status as the first lady is irrelevant because in this country we don't base democratic elections on status where in the 'experience  in question ultimately required no accountability, i would hear back something about feminism and all that other irrelevant to the point I made stuff. Irrelevant because such arguments actually damage feminism. Irrelevant because ulimately the status question isn't about gender- the same problem derides when son replaces the father- a la George Bush. Any other indicators of aristocracy. But all of that is thrown out of the window as "OT" because the sole discussion we  are supposed to pretend is gender. Not gender in context. Not gender with regard to actual issues involving gender. But gender as to how can help a single candidate who happens to be a woman.  The fact that Obama is black however is suppose to be ignored.


by bruh21 on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 10:16:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Chris Rock would have said this (none / 0)

about a man.

I can't remember which of his HBO specials it was, but he had a routine in there about how a black man would never be picked for vice-president, because if he were, "Some black guy would shoot the president. I mean, I would!"

I don't think his comment about the "white lady" was sexist. If he had said the "white bitch," that would be different.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 01:06:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

it is 2007 (2.00 / 1)

you shouldn't need an explanation for something that is such a simple and long established concept.  Even a two year old understands something the first time you tell them.  You have an obligation to educate yourself.  So go take a womans history course.. preferable taught by someone other than a dumbass who refers to women running for President as "Ladies".
These conversations have been going on for thirty years.  Do your own catch up work.  I can promise you that most women are sick of trying to educate those who don't want to accept the concept in the first place.  We simply are not going to spend the next 30 years having the same conversation because you don't get it.

ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 10:58:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, thank you (2.00 / 1)

he can be as sexist as he wants and he knows damn well he is not going to be hit back with any sort of racist attacks.  First of all , Clinton is not racist.  Secondly no one would tolerate racism against him. There would be screeching all over the media.  But sexism against Senator Clinton is just fine.  After all, she is too ambitious.
The funny thing is that people tolerate plenty of racism against guys like Sharpton.

ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 09:23:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes, thank you (none / 0)

"The funny thing is that people tolerate plenty of racism against guys like Sharpton."

What a dumb comment. Look, plenty of black folks are sick and tired of having Al Sharpton be the face the black America. I know I am.

No one is racist against him, they simply object to the racial antics of Al Sharpton. This includes masses of black folks who roll their eyes every time the guy appears.

Sorry, but Obama is deserving of much more respect that Al Sharpton, who I find to be an embarassment to the race. Of course, those are the sort of black folks you like. Go figure.


"Well Hillary, I looking forward to you advising me as well." - Barack Obama
by General Sherman on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 10:11:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, thank you (2.00 / 1)

he can be as sexist as he wants and he knows damn well he is not going to be hit back with any sort of racist attacks.  First of all , Clinton is not racist.  Secondly no one would tolerate racism against him. There would be screeching all over the media.  But sexism against Senator Clinton is just fine.  After all, she is too ambitious.
The funny thing is that people tolerate plenty of racism against guys like Sharpton.

ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 09:24:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

a lot of substantive issues get unreported (2.00 / 1)

Our media culture is ridiculous. This is one of many campaign stories that hasn't been reported, or hasn't been covered in the kind of depth it deserves.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:03:02 PM EST

Re: a lot of substantive issues get unreported (none / 0)

Thanks, desmoines.  There's alot under the surface that isn't dicussed.  I appreciate your comments.


by bookgrl on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:16:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a lot of substantive issues get unreported (none / 0)

I agree.


by Korha on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 12:52:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a lot of substantive issues get unreported (2.00 / 1)

That is true.  


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 09:25:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Facing Undiscussed Sexism (none / 0)

Well, you see...Team Clinton's whole campaign was supposed to depend on the history-making aspect of her run. Of course, Obama has just as much a claim to "making history" as does Clinton.

That Obama, a black man, stole their thunder simply incenses the Clinton campaign. Their tied Good 'ol Boys, white male power structure lines don't work against Obama, because he's less of a member of the Old Boys Club than is Hillary.

How dare he!!


"Well Hillary, I looking forward to you advising me as well." - Barack Obama
by General Sherman on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:25:30 PM EST

OT. (none / 0)


by bookgrl on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:26:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OT. (none / 0)

This diary would never have been written, if Clinton had not been dropping in the poll's and it now looks like she can and will lose Iowa.


by BDM on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 10:01:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It really has nothing to do with polls. (none / 0)

 


by bookgrl on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 10:10:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It really has nothing to do with polls. (none / 0)

Then why didn't you write it a month ago.


by BDM on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 01:06:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey bookgrl (2.00 / 1)

thanks for writing the diary. I get what you're saying and I don't believe that you're writing it just b/c of the perception that HRC is slipping in the polls.

You wrote the diary in response to the article that dealt with the issue which was written a few days ago.

Sexism is a serious issue in our society and should not be tolerated towards anyone, even the people that we don't like. I would hope that members of the Democratic party, as well as the left blogosphere would stand against sexual discrimination against women, even against a candidate like HRC that they do not like. But apparently, sexism isn't a value to be upheld by some members of the left blogosphere. It's truly unfortunate to see such hatred towards women in the blogosphere over these many months. It shows how progressive even the left blogosphere really is.

I got somewhat of an inkling of where the left blogs stood on sexism when the Imus incident occurred last spring. I thought it would be standard response for so called progressives to call out Imus for his unfortunate remarks but to my shock, horror and dismay there were some in the blogosphere who didn't think that Imus' comments against the Rutgers women were a big deal. Given the fact that blog world is dominated by white males and apparently a lot of males (black and white) share sexist attitudes towards women, I don't think that it should be a surprise that you're getting the denials in this particular post. People don't want to address their sexist attitudes--their superiority towards women.

Despite the responses that you've received so far, please continue to stand up against this unacceptable behavior. You might not get through to some people this time, but maybe eventually you might break through one of these days....

Thanks again for this diary....  


by ademption on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 10:49:47 PM EST

Re: Hey bookgrl (2.00 / 1)

I grew up in a very liberal family and I can promise you that even though people do not like to admit it, there is as much sexism on the left as the right.
There has also been a backlash against feminism for the last 25 years and unfortunately men and many women under the age of 45 have bought in to a lot of the talking points.  Look how often men here and at dkos will argue that reverse sexism is "just as bad".

ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 09:31:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey bookgrl (none / 0)

We've all read Susan Faludi--has nothing to do with HRC's current problems.


"Well Hillary, I looking forward to you advising me as well." - Barack Obama
by General Sherman on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 10:12:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey bookgrl (2.00 / 1)

lol, that's all you've got?  First of all, yes it has plenty to do with her current problems and secondly you have now exposed yourself as a sexist.  You know the history and the arguments, you don't accept them.  Women are liars, trying to get an advantage over the poor white guy who is soooooo damaged by reverse sexism and reverse racism.


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 11:04:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey bookgrl (none / 0)

That's just it Mollie...I have read Faludi and others.

You see, you reduce all of Clinton's problems to sexist backlash. Look, I will NEVER deny that Clinton and all women are victims of sexist double standards. The question is whether MOST of the coverage regarding Clinton has a sexist bent. I say no. You of course disagree.

I will admit that HRC often gets a raw deal or unfair coverage, or even more scrutiny--but has little to do with her gender and more to do with the fact that she's been in the public eye for so long. Bill Clinton was subjected to the same viscious attacks---were those attacks sexist in nature. No. Often unfair. Yes.

So you want to take me to task for reading Faludi  and still not buying into your argument. Fine. At least I take the time to understand the arguments out there instead of denying the ingrained sexism that other fail to even see.

Listen, you support Clinton and your gripes now are just as much animated by your support for Clinton as they are by your overall laments about sexism in our society.

You don't represent all of womanhood, and plenty of feminist women would disagree with you. So don't expect me to cower in fear with your accusations of sexism. It's not going to work.

But feel free to keep trying.


"Well Hillary, I looking forward to you advising me as well." - Barack Obama
by General Sherman on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 12:39:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Facing Undiscussed Sexism (none / 0)

"Sexism is a serious issue in our society and should not be tolerated towards anyone, even the people that we don't like."

And no one here is tolerating sexism. Indeed, it's been the Clinton campaign that has given the most nod to patriarchal notions during this campaign.

Funny how women in Iowa aren't buying this crap.


"Well Hillary, I looking forward to you advising me as well." - Barack Obama
by General Sherman on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 11:01:24 PM EST

If no one is tolerating sexism here (2.00 / 2)

then why are you poopoohing what was stated in this article that on Facebook and other places on the internet, HRC has been called vile sexist names. It makes it appear as if you are tolerating that behavior by not speaking out against it and trying to change the subject to a territory that you feel more comfortable, ie attacking Hillary and accusing her of being responsible for said behavior.

So General Sherman will you say in this diary right now that it is wrong to call HRC sexist names here at mydd? Is that what you're saying General Sherman?

I'm sorry. I'm just not clear as to your statement that no one in this community tolerates the use of sexist language against Hillary and particularly your efforts demonstrating this intolerance....


by ademption on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 11:13:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If no one is tolerating sexism here (2.00 / 1)

It is wrong to call Hillary sexist names at MyDD. Anyone that does so should be called on it and/or banned from the site.

Happy?

But, still, don't act as if attacks on Hillary are, en masse, characterized by sexism or motivated my sexist motivations.

You have an incentive in making it appear that way. You're point of departure is not principle.

We all know that.


"Well Hillary, I looking forward to you advising me as well." - Barack Obama
by General Sherman on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 11:24:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm satisfied for now (2.00 / 2)

Now I expect that your words will be followed by action. Talk is cheap. The next time that someone writes a sexist remark about Hillary in a diary or post here at mydd and you are online here I EXPECT you to trollrate the comment AND ask for that person's banning. That's the standard that you have set in your reply to my post. I EXPECT you to follow through on this standard.

Also, I recognize that some people have non-sexist criticisms of HRC, but this diary wasn't about that. This diary was about an article that discussed sexist remarks about Hillary on the internet and it's not right for you and your comrades to change the subject to obfuscate from the FACTS presented in that article. I appreciate the fact that you made a clear statement against  calling HRC sexist names here at mydd, but I think it's unfortunate that you and your comrades decided to hi-jack this diary to change the subject instead of dealing with the issue at hand directly (until I called you out on it)....

Again, I EXPECT you to enforce the standards that you set in the previous response to me and that the next time that you see a sexist remark against Hillary that you will trollrate the poster and call for that poster's banning in the comments within the diary...

Thank  you....


by ademption on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 11:40:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm satisfied for now (none / 0)

deal.


"Well Hillary, I looking forward to you advising me as well." - Barack Obama
by General Sherman on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 11:51:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Facing Undiscussed Sexism (2.00 / 1)

you are tolerating sexism here. I have not seen you once call someone on their sexist comments about Clinton's time in the white house not being experience.  You know, if you are being honest that she was engaged in policy and all the day to day workings of her husbands administration.  She didn't get to make decisions, he was his own man.  But she was not Pat Nixon or Jackie Kennedy and her time there was excellent experience.  When I see you calling someone, including Obama on that bullshit sexist argument against her, then you can say you are not tolerating sexism.
But even then others are not only tolerating sexism they are guilty of it.

ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 09:36:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Why is HRC talking about one-night-stand? (none / 0)

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/ 2007/12/clinton-doesnt.html

This is just full of awful images.


"Well Hillary, I looking forward to you advising me as well." - Barack Obama
by General Sherman on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 11:06:59 PM EST

Re: Why is HRC talking about one-night-stand? (none / 0)

Can you imagine if a man had said that?


"Well Hillary, I looking forward to you advising me as well." - Barack Obama
by General Sherman on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 11:07:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Heh. (none / 0)

I think it's funny.

Although given who it's coming from, I know it's just pillow talk; she'll leave me for some foxy moderate come general election time.


Support Regina Thomas, GA-12
by Drew on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 11:42:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh. (none / 0)

I think it's filthy.


"Well Hillary, I looking forward to you advising me as well." - Barack Obama
by General Sherman on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 11:51:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree, that is weird (none / 0)

as is this from the same article:

"Let's have a raucous caucus," Clinton said to voters in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, earlier today.  "It reminds me of that book 'Where the Wild Things Are,' that  book I used to read to Chelsea all the time. Let the wild rumpus begin."

I love that book too, but I don't think I would try to get voters to caucus for the first time by making it seem like a "wild rumpus."


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 01:10:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh well, people don't (none / 0)

alwys say pefect things.  Would appreciate if you did not use this diary for an open forum.  This is OT.


by bookgrl on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 01:21:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree, that is weird (none / 0)

well, i'm sure queen hillary thinks of the unwashed masses as a wild rumpus.


I really don't understand how that is an attack; lol. ~ by Jerome Armstrong
by jello on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 02:16:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

we can always count on you (none / 0)

for the cry of the fake leftist.  There you sit on your computer whining about the unwashed masses and the elite....lol
You are a real white-boy in the hood aren't you, a middleclass wannabe Tom Joad. What a joke.

ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 11:09:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: we can always count on you (none / 0)

?

i'm not a boy.


I really don't understand how that is an attack; lol. ~ by Jerome Armstrong
by jello on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 05:04:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree, that is weird (2.00 / 1)

Oh come on, it's a cute kids book.  You are picking silly nits.


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 09:38:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why is HRC talking about one-night-stand? (none / 0)

she's recycling kerry campaign's old line from the last primary season: "date dean but marry kerry"
this was actually put on campaign buttons.

kerry was arguing go ahead, have a fling with dean, whose exciting, but for a husband you want dependable experience.

i know, totally inane, and insults women voters.

hillary's reincarnation isn't any better.


I really don't understand how that is an attack; lol. ~ by Jerome Armstrong
by jello on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 05:18:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hi bookgrl, (2.00 / 1)

are you the same person as masslib at Dkos? If so, I didn't realize it. Or, did you just crosspost this diary for her?


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 11:36:41 PM EST

Hi, Nuevo. (2.00 / 1)

No, it's me, Masslib.  Long story.  Hi, anyway.


by bookgrl on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 11:43:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton Facing Undiscussed Sexism (none / 0)

dont fuck with comedy central.


zombies are coming
by leewesley on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 11:49:01 PM EST

gasp! sexism? you don't say... (2.00 / 1)


funny how the grassroots are forever defending hillary, but she never stuck her neck out to defend us. where was she when bush and the entire rightwing were calling us traitors and worse for opposing the war. she didn't even know we existed.
I really don't understand how that is an attack; lol. ~ by Jerome Armstrong
by jello on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 02:09:46 AM EST

lie much? (none / 0)


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 09:39:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: lie much? (none / 0)

usually, calling somebody a liar is followed up by evidence demonstrating as much.


I really don't understand how that is an attack; lol. ~ by Jerome Armstrong
by jello on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 05:07:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There is blatant sexism here (2.00 / 1)

what is sickening is that people can't see it.  Call someone on it and you get accused of stifling "debate" (as if debate were the purpose of sexist attacks) and troll rated.

Jane should grown up and defend Clinton whether she supports her or not.  I am at the point that I don't really give a shit what ground young women lose if they are not willing to fight for women's issues...... I don't have to worry about pregnancy, if young women can't stick up for women in general why should I continue to do it?

Jane Hamsher makes quite a lot of hay from being the favorite blogger of dumbass genX male bloggers.   Good for her.  I am not impressed with her reluctance.


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 08:46:25 AM EST

Re: There is blatant sexism here (none / 0)

Fighting for women's issues does not mean fighting for Hillary.

Plenting of feminist women realize this.


"Well Hillary, I looking forward to you advising me as well." - Barack Obama
by General Sherman on Mon Dec 03, 2007 at 10:15:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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